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An Elder Statesman's List.
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Posts: 39
Joined: Nov 2014
Post: #121
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
(06-10-2015, 03:58 PM)Fordus Wrote:  Well hello Herb!

-Just curious, around what time period do you consider TS to have reached such technical ability?

-I agree about Slick. He was insanely potent, but not as consistent as the very best of all time. He went through some brilliant stretches though, and I think it's more his strategic shortcomings that detract from his qualifying for the top5.

-Not that anyone cares, but I think gh0st is mostly certainly not in the same class as KK or Tsunami. While they were potent duelers/unloaders in their heyday, I think gh0st was all talk with nothing to show for it.

he sure had base though.

[Image: ik2a2mw.jpg]
"How fucking stupid and foolish of you to think you could do this"
06-11-2015, 12:08 AM
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Post: #122
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
It's hard to say exactly when, ARC just hasn't really been on my mind for such a long time. TS was good even back in uFo, but I think the period of time when he started standing out was approximately when he started smurfing as englishmime (whenever that was). He was very naturally good at the game, but he was still improving then. We smurfed a lot back then, so I think his progress seemed less meteoric to me, but he was probably at his peak sometime in TM. Of course my opinion is biased, since I played more with them than most others. I think the standard gameplans didn't really work against them. At least when I played against them, the options felt much more narrow - couldn't take the same risks, had to play it safe more often and had to settle for neutral outcomes.

I didn't mean to imply that Ghost was as good as the other two; Just that I lumped them into the same category. They behave similarly.
06-11-2015, 08:36 AM
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Posts: 170
Joined: Apr 2014
Post: #123
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
Ah. Yeah, I never played with englishmime, this might have been near the beginning of spark when I was inactive for a year or so. I suspect I never played with him much at his peak. My best recollection of him in terms of ability was when TBWA played against CaDF and he was on the CaDF side, and I did identify him as my toughest opponent (of course, Mage was in my clan at the time) but I think I was still better than him at that time. There's a video somewhere of one of the TBWA vs CaDF games, and it's hard to tell much from the video because of how bad the spectator view was back then, but looking at it kind of confirmed this for me / makes me think my memory/perception of his strength at the time was slightly embellished.

Don't get me wrong though, I think he was one of the game's greatest talents, and I placed him in the top3 or 4 of all time on my own list, he's just hard to place for me due to inactivity/smurfness / his length of dominance was relatively short compared to other top players.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2015, 11:20 AM by Fordus.)
06-11-2015, 11:17 AM
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Post: #124
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
true enough!

we did smurf a LOT back then. To borrow a league of legends buzzword, much of the ARC community felt very toxic. All I ever wanted TM to be was just a bunch of friends who enjoyed playing together.

that's enough reminiscing for me, I'm going to return to the shadows. If BadGuy still plays, someone please tell him he sucks.
06-11-2015, 12:01 PM
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Post: #125
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
Toughshot must have reached a peak a little after that APL... for those months he seemed pretty similar to Mage to me. (But it was all scrims and pub GOs.)

Nano was the most frustrating player I played against competitively. He didn't seem to take consistent damage and he was virtually impervious to grenades from distance. It never felt fair but I don't think it was his fault, just bad game design (and perhaps moments of packet loss?) He had superb distance shooting and awesome spreads. I wish we could see first-person video from his perspective because we'd know how well he was actually dodging and how badly people were missing him. I don't remember him being as good close range but others probably know better than me. Not like getting close was possible anyway.
06-13-2015, 11:05 AM
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Posts: 170
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Post: #126
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
here's the video.
06-13-2015, 11:18 AM
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Post: #127
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
Toughshot's peak was so short lived, because he rarely played when he was at his best. His most active stretch I believe when he was playing at a high level was the APL vs Mage/TBWA. If I recall correctly too, I believe Mage said after TBWA had beat CaDF in the finals that, in his opinion, Toughshot was the hardest opponent he had ever played against.

Afterwards he was in TM but didn't really play in that league they won. Which benefited all the other teams since TM still ended up winning with Meek, when they could have had toughshot in the lineup instead.
06-13-2015, 11:19 AM
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Post: #128
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
I dont know who Elder is so I have to ask where do these people show up?

ZzzZSnore, Iginest, Chronic, MooCow, mazaru, Einhander, Hroth, Wizard(wizzy), Baron(ZULU), Silvercrow, Puffy, random TBWA members, The guy who was always with Murder.. I think he was named Slayer. (The clan was DL?)

My former names were
My former names were, Dragone, Hennessy and a few other names I forget.
I was never that good but I played in a few APLs (older ones, UAL, MLAs) and I started various clans.

Now that I think about it.. Slayer was a smurf account shared right?
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2015, 03:28 AM by shizlanski.)
07-02-2015, 03:24 AM
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Post: #129
RE: An Elder Statesman's List.
(04-13-2014, 07:15 AM)Elder Statesman Wrote:  With our game going through perhaps the biggest shift we've yet seen, and the old ways of competitive GO now being shelved for the time being, we've been witness to a complete reshuffling of our beloved top player lists. Old names that we were accustom to seeing have been replaced by names that previously had no business being placed so highly.

While this may excite and rejuvenate the interest of some people here, I'd like to pause and take a second to acknowledge those who took the playing of this game to new heights through their continued excellence over their years of competitive play. Names that have long been etched in our history books for being the best we have ever seen. And so, I present to you, an Elder Statesmen's list of the  ten best players ever.

1. Mage

What is there to say that hasn't already been said? This is most likely the only spot on the list that won't be argued by the majority of people, for most it's probably a foregone conclusion. Mage became considered the number one player on ARC during 2002 by the masses, though you could argue that he was number one before that in CaDF's first season during 2001, but just not widely recognised as such. During his long and illustrious reign he has won all but one of the APL's he has participated in, falling short only in his first ever season with DeF, and along the way beating many of the other players on this list head to head in the playoffs or finals. If I'm right that's six seasons (DeF Spring '01, CaDF Fall '01, CaDF '02, TBWA '06, TBWA '07 and TM '09) and five titles (all but DeF). Hell of a record.

It is generally accepted that Mage achieved the highest level of play we've ever seen, though there are a number of people who believe that others achieved just as high, if not higher. If that is the case, there is most certainly nobody else who exhibited that level of dominance for the length of time that Mage did. From 2002 onwards, any time that he was known to be actively playing the game he was unanimously considered to be number one. Each and every time he went up against any contenders when it mattered, he won. Somebody on a good day might get close to what Mage was consistently achieving, Mage on a good day was from another planet.

His crowning achievement is most likely his winning season with TM in 2009. It was the first and only season where he was not in either CaDF or TBWA, and went up against them in the season surrounded by a different cast of players, beating TBWA in the semi's and then CaDF in the finals. This was also likely the games most competitive point with the highest level of play we've seen to date, and it's safe to say Mage was playing the best he had ever played during this period. Without Mage TM may well not have been SPL 2009's champions. It's possible that with any other player in his place they would have failed to win the season, and they came very close to it even with him.

2. Nano

Many aspects of Nano's game get overlooked. He is the only heavy lagger that I've personally witnessed play who I felt was genuinely capable of being a good fragger. People who play with a high ping are in many respects actually playing a different game, because a lot of what they're doing comes down to prediction. Since the majority of our community hails from the U.S or Canada they've never really had to experience playing with a high ping, and so very often you'll see them credit the ping of a lagger for whatever success said lagger achieves, rather than acknowledging the potential skill involved. While it may be hard for you to hit them, it's hard for them to hit everybody. This is what makes Nano all the more impressive.

Laggers tend to have bad habits they acquire while playing because they get used to not being hit in certain situations, and against the majority of players they won't be. Put them up against a top player, however, and suddenly those cheap tactics don't work. Nano lost those bad habits, something no other Aussie or Kiwi ever really achieved, and it's interesting to think about how good a fragger he could have been had he lived in the U.S, when you see what he was capable of on the technical side of things with an Australian ping. He's potentially the only guy who managed to rival Mage's survivability, there's a reason we saw all of those screenshots of him and Mage both reaching 100+ in public GO games on ARC while they were in TBWA. Nano had to have a very high degree of ability to do that, no matter who he was against.

Before the days of Mage joining TBWA in 2006, it was Nano who back boned TBWA's efforts through many of the earlier years. With team mates such as WiZzArD, Acolyte and GodsHand going up against CaDF in it's golden era he was revered as TBWA's best player. He was a staple player for them through from HFront all the way to 2010 on Spark, and while admittedly he wasn't as active or involved in the game as he had been previously, in those APL's on Spark he was still a force to be reckoned with. The amount of experience he amassed over the years is equalled (or bettered, slightly) by only two people in the form of Astrok and Parrotman. Few other players have played in the sheer quantity of big games that Nano has, and to top that off, he's been with TBWA for every single one of them.

3. Fordus

Fordus' name has seldom left the sharp end of top player lists for the last ten or so years. He has a history of being outspoken with regards to his opinion of his own and others skill, often enjoying making lists and debating with people back on the ARC-HQ forums. While his peak was certainly very high, I dare say that there are a select few (not all coming from the people above him here) who I believe bested him with regards to peak ability. Due to his (and in many cases his clan mates) frequent ranking of pilots, I wonder if that may have lead to an inflated perception of just how good Fordus was. Don't get me wrong though, he was certainly very good.

During one of Ford's early APL seasons (perhaps his first?) with TW, he showed that he was indeed extremely capable and had league leading statistics in a number of categories. He was a huge factor in their success that season (ignoring the obvious debacle) and would go on to build upon his experiences there. When 2005 came around he was with Enigma (jumping ship from LF during the early season), staring down a golden opportunity to take home the prestigious APL title, while TBWA sat on the side lines and CaDF seemed extremely weak during the regular season compared to what we had come to expect. Enigma faltered however, as CaDF found their stride in the playoffs and Fordus was left without his first title. Despite that disappointment, he still produced what is likely one of the most impressive individual performances over the course of a season that we've seen from anybody. It was with this season that I believe Fordus truly established himself as an all time great.

In 2007 he joined the ranks of TBWA, completing what has remained as the strongest line up we've ever witnessed. TBWA's starting quartet was comprised of four people who all feature in this list, and they had a fifth who could rotate in at any point who also features here. This was where Ford finally won his first title and would go on to win another in 2010. He would have perhaps had more success over his playing time, but choosing to be with TW in 2002 and then again in the remake for 2006 saw him disqualified and removed from the season both times thanks to Nemesis. As a result, the fact he has only two APL titles, while no less impressive, is still perhaps a little surprising considering the length of time he has been at the top. Despite this, it's obvious that Fordus is clearly one of the best we've seen. Though I feel that on Spark he may not have had the same edge we were lead to believe he possessed during ARC, his exploits over the course of his career should garner him much praise.

4. ElAsesino

The first person to start actively and publicly crediting ElAsesino as a top player was Fordus, if I recall correctly, and he got a lot of flak for it. People vehemently disagreed, and this may have been largely due to the fact that ElA was a new name being introduced that high, and people were wary of that. A few months later everybody saw what Fordus was talking about. I'm of the opinion that when ElA was active and in good form, during his prime he was capable of putting games together that would be staggering. Games that could rival the dominance Mage produced, and there's maybe only three people on this list who I would bestow that compliment. Unfortunately, I don't believe he has ever really had the opportunity to come good on that, due to various circumstances affecting his activity or playing environment. One of the things that stands out in my mind, is that I recall being told he played an APL game standing up at a train station.

A unique point about ElA is that he hasn't won an APL title, a shocking fact when we consider the calibre of players we're talking about. Most of you reading this will be aware that his lack of a title comes largely from the fact that he chose to stay with sYn for the vast majority of his competitive playing time. sYn was a clan that was always thought to be weaker than the other top tier clans, they never quite had a fully fleshed out starting line that didn't have at least one noticeable weak link (for the level of play they were at). While on paper they looked weaker, they would always tend to perform better than what they "should" have been able to. If I'm right, sYn played in five APL's in total and I believe they made it to the finals once ('06) and the semi finals the rest of the time ('05, '07, '09, '10). That's a hell of a record for a clan that was supposedly the worst of the best, and a chunk of the credit for that must lay with the Spanish assassin. While sYn did have notable pilots over it's lifetime, as a clan they had a reputation for being able to breed talent, or at least take previously weak players and make them competent enough to play in big games. A good example of this is the line of ElAsesino, Omega, ElDiablo and BadGuy, a team that made it to the semi finals of the most competitive APL we've ever had. I wonder what sYn could have achieved if they retained some of the pilots who wore the tag over the years. Names such as Braindx, Dzaaneez, Solo, Nino and Dario come to mind and when we think about how good some of those ended up becoming, there's a lot of potential there.

Admittedly, there may be a little bit of the JediKnite/Graktorn effect happening when we speak of ElAsesino, at least to begin with. A really good player surrounded by a cast of decent players can be made to look amazing in comparison when things go right. Taking the merits of that one good player on their own and correctly judging their ability can be tough in those circumstances, but considering that ElA maintained his position within the top ten for around ten years means you would be hard pressed to really make that argument any more. While he doesn't have the same kind of results that others on this list have, ElA has most definitely earned the right to be here.

5. TechMan

CaDF's dark horse. When Tech-Man initially joined CaDF for the 2002 season, as an individual he was more than qualified to step straight into their starting line. Yet CaDF stuck with their tried and trusted line from 2001 (justifiably) and went on to forge history, meaning Tech didn't get to fully showcase his ability. During 2005 when CaDF completed the three peat, Tech received MVP of the season (or playoffs?), but it feels like this is a forgotten fact. Fast forward to Spark and Tech's activity wasn't what it once was but he remained a staple in the line up. Even though it was Sebek being rated as the best CaDF, it's a very real possibility that it was in fact TMan who was still most integral to CaDF's success and thus their most important and "best" player. It seems that a recurring theme throughout Tech-Man's history is that he has constantly been underrated by the majority of people and never fully given the credit he deserves.

At the point he joined CaDF there were several mumblings that he had the capacity to challenge Mage in terms of fragging. Whether due to lack of desire, talent or time that doesn't seem to have quite came to fruition, but he was most definitely a formidable fragger capable of taking down the most skilled of opponents on his day. During Spark, while perhaps being a little rusty, Tech shifted to facilitate success for his team by doing much of the dirty work and being the most strategically aware on the team. Easily the one most prepared to die and do the unflattering tasks, with him not present versus TBWA in 2010 for the finals CaDF faltered, and one wonders whether they relied too much upon Tech doing that for them; perhaps lending credence to the notion of him being the most important member.

Though his technical ability may have suffered slightly throughout Spark due to inactivity he was still thought to be at least top ten. Just how technically good he was may get overlooked because of how he chose to play, often putting himself in unfavourable positions and being aggressive for the sake of a play. This often resulted in him not producing the most impressive of fragging statistics, but it did result in a strong win percentage. Despite being that good, over the years Tech has managed to avoid being put in the spotlight and so people are perhaps a little too quick to forget some of the things he achieved. Parrot believed Tech was CaDF's most crucial pilot during 2005, citing that he felt he was at least top three and it may be fair to say he's remained the most crucial since. Unassumingly, Tech-Man has put together a career worthy of the hall of fame.  

6. Parrotman

CaDF's main stay. Parrotman gets the number six spot largely due to his longevity. Though the landscape of the competitive game has changed drastically over the years, Parrot has consistently been placed inside the top ten, and his peak may have saw him being top three. For the better part of fifteen years Parrot has been a contender, even now as CTA defines what it is to be competitive on this game, Parrot is ranked as a top player. This distinction cannot be given to any other player on this list. Nobody has remained as active and as good as Parrot for the length of time he has. There's something to be said for versatility and Pman has moved from the old resolution to the current one, from GO to CTA and whatever there's been in between and always been one of the best.

Part of the original peak line up for CaDF in '01 and '02 which dominated the competition and set the bar for everybody else. Mage, Parrot, Cutler and Toshi were the golden standard, dropping only one game ever (to 2Cool I believe), and it's a very real possibility that Parrot was the second best fragger in the game at that point. Pman's fragging was revered, in part due to his somewhat unorthodox play style that can still be seen boggling the minds of his opponents today. By 2005 CaDF had a whole new line up in Parrot, Tech, Dzaaneez and J Man and with new challenges to face he was instrumental in securing CaDF's third straight title. One of the things that sets Parrot apart from many others on this list, is that he is perhaps the only player who has successfully implemented a very aggressive style of play in to GO at a high level. He has consistently been a player that has forced the issue, often creating and drawing pressure through forward positioning and sacrificial play. There's perhaps one or two others who feature here that this can also be said about, but I feel nobody else has it define their style like it does Parrot. It goes to show that perhaps there is more than one way to achieve success when playing Golden Oldie.

Parrot has the privilege of having been at the top long enough to be able to play against everybody who has come and gone while they've been at their best. The chances are that any notable player who competed in an APL had to face Parrot at one point or another, and with that in mind, the fact that he has four APL titles (tying with Mage and Nano) is pretty impressive. That means that at one point or another, there is a strong possibility that he has beaten anybody who would feature in this list, save for perhaps a couple. For being a cornerstone of the pinnacle of competition on this game, Parrotman earns sixth.

7. Ominous

Ominous spent a number of years honing his craft in clans such as TW, XiN and LF before finally making the move up to TBWA in 2006. It was here that Omin began to really write his own story after having seemingly played in his brothers shadow for a number of years. While Omin was known to be good, it seemed that while he was getting rated on the cusp of top ten, Fordus was being rated within the top five. While LF would have an impressive regular season in the APL of 2005, E would go one better and finish as the first seed. This changed when Ominous joined TBWA, and he would go on to win that APL starting along side Mage, Nano and K0rRupt (albeit with Mage missing for the regular season). Ominous had began to forge his own history while making his way in to the record books, and his brother would eventually follow him and also join TBWA in 2007.

As we moved to Spark he was a household name within the top ten and it's a very real possibility that he surpassed his brother in ability during this period (especially in 2010). I'm a firm believer that Omin was likely TBWA's best overall player for the duration of their competitive time on Spark. While Fordus, Nano and K0rRupt were all slightly less active and slightly less practiced, Omin had stayed consistent and it showed in his play. He's a big reason that TBWA retained the edge they had and managed to get the win over CaDF in 2010.

While the rest of his clan moved away from the game after that season, Omin returned for 2011 and joined iLogic to at least see some game play, but he may mostly be remembered for managing to tolerate commentating games alongside the hopelessly lost PitchblackItai. While it's sad they no longer play, TBWA (and specifically Omin) went out at the top.

8. Sebek

If he can still be thought of as such, Sebek is the "new age" top player. While making his break through at beginning of Spark, Perfect Flame (along with Toughshot) made a little bit of history in finally being a new name frequently seen towards the top of lists. Until PF and TS, top ten lists were made up of the same names in rehashed orders for many years, with changes only happening based largely upon activity. So it was refreshing to see that there was still talent coming through capable of legitimately challenging the old guard at a point where the game reached new competitive heights. And whereas Toughshot abruptly went inactive before 2009 SPL, Sebek remained active and firmly established himself within the elite ranks of the game.

PF drew quite a bit of hype after his first APL season in 2005 with TnT, where people thought he was their best player and many thought there were bigger things to come. After seemingly coming out of nowhere, he moved on to CaDF for 2006 and lost that limelight, possibly being overshadowed by the already established greats he was now surrounded by, perhaps his development plateaued, or maybe he just got worse. Whatever the case, while it took him some time to fully deliver on the promises that his potential had made, he would eventually deliver and then some. As we moved to Spark Sebek's form increased dramatically and he would go on to become a key player for CaDF. 2009 saw the Confederates turn a lot of heads as they took TM to the wire, when prior to the season many thought they were the weakest of the title contending clans and did not believe they would make the finals. By 2010 he was being rated as number one in Mage's absence on many lists, even over the likes Nano and Fordus, and CaDF would again go on to take TBWA to the wire in a finals that was arguably closer than the TM one. In both of these seasons Sebek was given a large amount of the credit for CaDF's success through his consistently impressive and solid play. While he failed to win, he did enough to make people consider him as being the best individual player and that is something that continued in to 2011 and beyond.  

Given the current state of the game, and in particular competitive GO, it will be hard for Sebek to prove he deserves a higher placing. His only APL title comes from what I consider to be the weakest season we've seen for a long time. CaDF cruised through that season without putting in anywhere close to the same amount of practice we'd seen from them previously, and still managed to not drop a single game out of twenty (iLogic holding them to a 0-0 tie). Though he did lose to both TM and TBWA, those finals are probably number one and two in the "closest finals ever" list, which may speak as something of an achievement (and not just for Sebek, but for all CaDF's involved). With the losses he has already sustained, and the odds of there being another legitimate APL being slim, it seems the chances for Sebek and others to climb the list are very small indeed.

9. Toughshot

Toughshot is an anomaly. People were aware he was good while he was in uFo prior to joining CaDF in 2007, and he was good before that too. He had been in clans such as Enigma which is a nod to his capability in itself, NG and others, but he'd never really stepped in to the main arena of APL in a competitive clan. It wasn't until joining CaDF in 2007 after improving over previous months, that everybody really got to see just what he was capable of doing, and he turned a lot of heads during that season. It wouldn't be at all unfair to say that he was the reason CaDF was the most capable of standing up to the then powerhouse TBWA line of Mage, Nano, Fordus and K0rRupt/Ominous. Though CaDF would inevitably fall to TBWA people took note of TS's performance, and Mage himself publicly declared that Toughshot was the hardest opponent he faced. I don't recall Mage ever doing that for any other player.

Fast forward to Spark and he had continued to build upon his skill, leaving CaDF to join the newly formed Tactical Masterminds. By 2009 many people were talking about how TS had become the closest thing to Mage they had ever seen. The best public GO smurf's identities would be questioned with a, "is that Mage or TS?" and in top lists you would constantly see him ranked second. And yet as the 2009 season approached Toughshot disappeared, going deeply inactive to never fully return to the game again (save for a brief spell of activity after rejoining CaDF in 2010), leaving behind potentially the biggest "what if?" with regards to a player's career that we've ever had to swallow.

If this list was based purely upon a players individual skill, a lot of people wouldn't think Toughshot to be out of place sitting at number two. Unfortunately, in my opinion, there's more criteria to consider than just that, which it why he finds himself at ninth. This ninth place is given pretty much entirely off of the back of what he was known to be capable of, which is a testament to just how good he had gotten. The unfortunate reality, though, is that he never actually did anything noteworthy with his ability. He didn't compete at his peak, had he done so TM may well have had a line potentially better than TBWA's prime line. He played in two APL's (JEDI in '05, CaDF '07). He didn't remain active for a long time while exerting that Mage-like dominance, perhaps going for maybe a few months possibly pushing on to a year. I want to rank him higher, but when you look at who is on this list and who is above him, I just can't justify it.

10. Slick

For a long time people were aware that Slick had extremely good fragging ability. Through his exploits in XiN, and GI or LF to a lesser degree, it was known that he possessed some of the best spreads and dodging of any player on the game. When he finally joined TM on Spark and they won the 2009 SPL, people recognised just how gifted he was. During that season it's possible that he was a bigger threat than Mage. While Mage played his usual role of being the constant and unwavering presence on the map, Slick was free to be very aggressive and explosive and in turn was able to put teams under immense pressure. While he would regularly die a lot, he was often a catalyst for a lot of offensive pressure and would be able to create a play seemingly out of thin air.

What lets Slick down is that despite having all of that fragging ability, he was considerably less strategically aware than what he needed to be. A large reason as to why XiN consistently faltered against CaDF or TBWA was the fact that they would be exploited in the teamwork aspect of the game, even though they possessed the fragging to go toe to toe with them (for the most part, though they did have Gh0st who was very weak in terms of fragging, JeLLy was available in '05 and would often play in place of Gh0st, and they would eventually pick up Prevent I believe). Even in 2009 it was clear that Slick still lacked in his strategy, and if left to make his own decisions he would often make very questionable ones. Fortunately, between the experience of Mage and the strategic mind of Puffyfish, they were able to put Slick's fragging to good use, and this in turn allowed Slick's potency to increase.

TM won in 2009 without the presence of Toughshot. Had he been there I think it's fair to say that a line of Mage, Toughshot, Slick and Puffyfish could have rivalled the dominance of Mage, Nano, Fordus and KorRupt/Ominous, and Slick would have undoubtedly been a big reason as to why. It's unusual to see such a technically strong player have glaring strategical weaknesses, and if not for those weaknesses, Slick would probably be higher on this list. He has been an APL finalist three times (XiN '05, XiN '06, GI '07) and won it once, again like Fordus perhaps a little surprising, but had TM continued on (and Slick not smurfed) there's a good chance he would have added more to that tally. Slick has managed to be one of the most unique and exciting players to compete, and largely based off of his fragging alone he earns the tenth spot.


Honorable mentions; people who could maybe place inside the top 10, or are otherwise names that would make up the spots on the list should we start to make a top 20. It just gets too hard to order them (and even this top 10 may suck) but these guys deserve a mention none the less.

K0rRupt - Dave probably deserves to be somewhere inside the top ten, but I'm having trouble placing him. His absolute peak seemed relatively short (either that or I just don't know when it was) and for the majority of his time on Spark he was focused on running the game rather than being entirely competitive (though he did still play). This means that I'd need to be assessing him largely from his exploits on ARC more so than Spark and I'm finding that difficult to do. Suffice to say that if what I've been told is true, he could very well place top five (perhaps top 3), he did win three APL titles with TBWA after all. Be assured though, that the man we all know and love for running Spark was also a force to be reckoned with on the field.

Astrok - Naturally, the man who was widely regarded as number one until Mage's rise deserves a mention. Astrok dominated ARC's infancy and I believe holds the most APL titles of any player I believe, would need verification on how many though. (I think it's five, may even be six).. Going through clans like CO, PB and TBWA (early on) as well as founding SN Ast was at the fore of competition for many years before finally relinquishing his grasp on the top spot.

Access Denied - Largely for the same reasons as Astrok less all the titles, though he has some to his name I'm sure. He has randomly came back numerous times over the years and still been good, but he all but quit playing actively as far back as 2003 or something, perhaps even earlier. He was a challenger to Astrok in those early ARC days, and while paired with him they were seemingly unstoppable.

Dzaaneez - While Dzaaneez may not be as individually impressive as some of the other names on this list, since joining CaDF in 2005 he has rarely missed a beat. I'm not convinced he's genuinely made a case for top ten but I would imagine he is very close to it. He's never quite been thought of as the creme of the crop, but he has consistently been in amongst the best. He was part of CaDF's front line since joining the clan prior to APL 2005 and has played an integral role in whatever success they've achieved since.

Puffball - Puffball burst on to the scene after joining CaDF prior to the 2009 SPL, where he ended up stepping in for Parrotman. From that point forward he has established himself as one of the most dangerous and explosive fraggers that the game has seen in recent years, and was potentially CaDF's biggest threat on numerous occasions.

DeadEye - DE was a formidable player who was largely prevalent during his time with TW and E. Though I don't recall him ever outright being rated as number one, he was regularly well inside the top ten and may have frequently placed top five. He went inactive some time around '05/'06 and hasn't been seen since, but he was a leading player in a very actively competitive environment.

Graktorn - Graktorn is an interesting one because depending upon who you ask, you'll get wildly differing answers. As I mentioned in my piece on ElA, correctly assessing an individuals ability when they're on a team of players who are considered to be significantly lesser skilled than said individual can be tough. Grak spent his entire career in TnT, and while I don't think anybody would deny he was good, just how good is up for debate.

Solo - Quite how good Solo became is something that I don't think is known by many people, save for TBWA and perhaps a handful of others. It's unfortunate that he chose to go inactive after 2010, because it wouldn't be far fetched to think he was TBWA's best player that season (albeit Nano and Fordus were perhaps not at their best). He became very good if for only a short period of time and as a result it's gone largely unnoticed. Since his peak was for so brief a time he doesn't earn a top ten spot, but I feel it would be a mistake to not acknowledge him.

There's more (J Man, Swifty, Monoxide, Chron to name but a few, and even players from earlier periods [Cutler, Toshi, WizZarD, Acolyte GodsHand, Bosh, Halcyon and on it goes]) but as we go further down the list it becomes increasingly difficult to tell where to draw the line. This list is intended to be extremely exclusive so inevitably there will be good people who don't get mentioned. If somebody is interested in hearing my opinion on specific players then I'll happily give it provided I feel I know enough about them.
Hi.... I don't know who "Elder Statesman" is but this list is discombobulated. Putting me in anything less than the top 1 is by far showing whoever you are you weren't any type of decent "back in the day". I ran schools based on how badly I beat most of those people on your list. Probably beat you too tbh....
07-25-2020, 01:52 PM
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