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04-25-2014, 08:07 AM #31
Dario Still n00b
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Status: Offline Posts:135 Threads:4 Joined:Mar 2014
(04-25-2014, 07:33 AM)tengo Wrote:  Not sure if you're seriously comparing your stint in Gladiators (where your team placed third) to Toughshot or Slicks performance in SPL.

Obviously not. We placed 3rd? Who knew?


tengo Wrote:Yet you have nothing to prove for this... its subjective and conflicts the evidence at hand. Also did you srsly count the games against CC?

I think we're starting to see the same picture. My point is that there is no "evidence," and it's all subjective. The fact that I went 3-0 vs. Drue while he was in [cc] and 2-3 vs. him while he was in TCH backs up everything I've been saying. These games don't tell you shit about which of us is the better player. If we traded places, the result would be the same most likely. BAMF was so much better than TCH in Koth, TCH was so much better than BAMF in Smear, and the teams were pretty equal in Entice. [cc] would have still gotten crushed by BAMF.


tengo Wrote:You still refuse to put the entire starting lineup for TCH that outplayed you the entire season.

I think I already addressed this in my previous post, and you twisted my words to make it seem like I was comparing myself to Toughshot (which clearly I was not). Meek beat TBWA and CaDF that one SPL, but he probably wouldn't even be their 5th best player. So you can't say the whole line of TCH outplayed me the entire season just because they beat BAMF. TCH outplayed BAMF; that is the only thing we can say for certain. Everything else I have been saying is only my opinion based purely from my perspective.

-love dar

04-25-2014, 08:20 AM #32
tengo Veteran
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Status: Offline Posts:433 Threads:32 Joined:Mar 2014
Dario Wrote:I think we're starting to see the same picture. My point is that there is no "evidence," and it's all subjective. The fact that I went 3-0 vs. Drue while he was in [cc] and 2-3 vs. him while he was in TCH backs up everything I've been saying. These games don't tell you shit about which of us is the better player. If we traded places, the result would be the same most likely. BAMF was so much better than TCH in Koth, TCH was so much better than BAMF in Smear, and the teams were pretty equal in Entice. [cc] would have still gotten crushed by BAMF.

The difference is Drue was able to win his series vs TCH while he was in CC. You cannot make claims such as "if we traded places the result would be the same" because that never happened nor will it. Because of the impact Drue made, that trade is not a toss-up and it's in Drue's favor that his team will win. In a hypothetical situation, if you traded places with him, you increase the changes of TCH losing and the opportunity of BAMF winning.



Dario Wrote:I think I already addressed this in my previous post, and you twisted my words to make it seem like I was comparing myself to Toughshot (which clearly I was not). Meek beat TBWA and CaDF that one SPL, but he probably wouldn't even be their 5th best player. So you can't say the whole line of TCH outplayed me the entire season just because they beat BAMF. TCH outplayed BAMF; that is the only thing we can say for certain. Everything else I have been saying is only my opinion based purely from my perspective.

The issue is you have no justification to say you are "3rd or 4th best". It's not just a horrible opinion but your failure to recognize when you're being outplayed by others provides even less legitimacy to your opinions. When the majority of your games result in a loss against TCH then you have to accept you were outplayed. Putting yourself in front of any of those players when you have a losing record makes zero sense. "Sorry bro, you win against me the majority of the time, but I still think I'm better than you and the rest of your team."
This post was last modified: 04-25-2014, 08:20 AM by tengo.

04-25-2014, 08:30 AM #33
Dario Still n00b
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Status: Offline Posts:135 Threads:4 Joined:Mar 2014
You're right. I see it now. Drue outplayed me because his team featuring Dzaaneez, Monoxide, K0rRupt, Puffyfish, and Phusion beat my team. Drue is a golden god. Mage would be annihilated if he played against Drue today.

See how it feels to have your words twisted? (although I'm not sure if this isn't actually your point)

-love dar

04-25-2014, 09:04 AM #34
A MF S Still n00b
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Status: Offline Posts:117 Threads:20 Joined:Mar 2014
(04-23-2014, 05:02 PM)tengo Wrote:  Who put Astrok #1... this ain't 1999 anymore

lol!

04-25-2014, 09:05 AM #35
hybridx n00b
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Status: Offline Posts:46 Threads:3 Joined:Apr 2014
i've used about 10 different names over the last month shaking some rust and i have to laugh at some of the individual rankings.

every one on this game should be assigned a GUEST1, GUEST2, GUEST3, etc. account for a big tournament and see what the numbers show!

also lol @ dar/tengo/turbo that was great reading.

[Image: pmSssFa.gif]

04-25-2014, 10:28 AM #36
tengo Veteran
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Status: Offline Posts:433 Threads:32 Joined:Mar 2014
(04-25-2014, 08:30 AM)Dario Wrote:  You're right. I see it now. Drue outplayed me because his team featuring Dzaaneez, Monoxide, K0rRupt, Puffyfish, and Phusion beat my team. Drue is a golden god. Mage would be annihilated if he played against Drue today.

See how it feels to have your words twisted? (although I'm not sure if this isn't actually your point)

No, but by listing the names of players you think played a bigger role than Drue shows that you are coming to the realization that you weren't 3rd or 4th best during Glad.

We're not here to build an alternative history and say "x player could have done the same thing" because it's a dead argument. Instead of speculating what could of happened, you have to come to terms with how these games ended. In other words, accept that you were outplayed, you lost, and you have no justification for putting yourself higher than any of the player that outplayed you. That's the point. Anybody could say that they're better than others, and that has to come with an argument. You don't have one.

04-26-2014, 03:05 PM #37
Fordus Still n00b
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Status: Offline Posts:170 Threads:27 Joined:Apr 2014
parrotman's the best player I've seen so far

04-26-2014, 03:16 PM #38
cyro Forum Administrator
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Status: Offline Posts:743 Threads:153 Joined:Jan 1970
Parrotman is a god among men.

tocs.

04-27-2014, 01:16 AM #39
Bone Still n00b
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Status: Offline Posts:240 Threads:37 Joined:Apr 2014
Yep Parrotman is extremely underrated. Always has been. I even thought so back when SPL/SGL was going on and CaDF would start Sebek/Puffball/Techman/Dzaaneez. That by no means isn't a top quality starting line and you can have a whole new argument who out of those 3 (not Sebek) you would sit, but Parrotman is the foundation for that team. There's so many players, even top players, that are in many ways one dimensional or stellar in one aspect and weaker in others. Parrotman has always been great in all aspects. Probably not the best in one area in particular, but he has no weaknesses.
This post was last modified: 04-27-2014, 01:17 AM by Bone.

04-27-2014, 06:13 AM #40
Riptide n00b
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Status: Offline Posts:39 Threads:3 Joined:Apr 2014
I'll take part in this and comment on the rated ranking list. First I'll comment on the player and their ranking, and then I'll state where I think they should be ranked with italics. I'd also like to point out that my rankings are based on EVERY kind of map, not exclusively GO (and other similar maps) or CTA. Although this should be obvious, I just wanted to put extra emphasis on it as it is the basis for my rankings. These encompass most regularly-played maps, the different game mode types, and my personal opinion on them.


1. Sebek
I don't think there's any disputing this, honestly. He hasn't lost much in the past few years despite spurts of inactivity due to his shoddy internet connection, and has everything you want in a player. Although he might not be as dominant as Drue in some of the close-quarters combat / gimmicky CTA maps, he completely outclasses him in most other maps and is still a force to be reckoned with in those maps regardless.

Tied with Puffball for #1.

2. Puffball
Similar to Sebek I don't think you can argue this. Yes, he puts in about 20% effort in CTAs when he plays (or less when his team mates prove to be incompetent and let him down) but his 20% is still better than most people on this game. If he were to actually get motivated and try for an entire match he, in my mind, would no doubt be the top player, which is why I have him tied with Sebek for the #1 spot. His fragging power is immense, and he can play confidently and very well at any range.

Tied with Sebek for #1.

3. Parrotman
As Bone stated very eloquently, Parrot is a very good player. He might not have any strengths, but he certainly has no weaknesses. This makes him an invaluable asset on any team as he can fill any role seamlessly. I agree with him in the #3 spot.

Ranked #3.

4. Drue
His CTA win percentage is ridiculous, but honestly most CTA games are a joke anyways because of uneven teams. If you look through any player's stat sheet the even games are few and far between when compared to the typical "x-0" blowouts that you see. As such, I think looking at win percentage by itself is an inflated and erroneous way of judging someone's skill but his ability in close-range and in smaller maps is nonetheless clearly evident. There's no denying that he's a top CTA pick along with Sebek and Puffball (if not THE pick in certain maps), but if you were to take out the mediocre and lesser skilled players and put him on an even playing field in a larger, slower-paced map, he wouldn't be able to keep up with the top players. He has always been mid-tier in GO and other similar maps where he can't take advantage of his close-range skills, and for me this drops him in the rankings overall.

If we were to take all maps into consideration, I would rank him tied in a tier with everyone else somewhere between #5 and #10.

More on the CTA win percentages: I think that maybe an "altered" win percentage which should be added which automatically removes any games which have a cap margin of larger than 3 (for example). I think this would drastically alter most players win percentages and would give us a much more accurate picture of how people perform in even games. Or something similar to that...I haven't thought about it in great detail but it's been at the back of my head for many months now.

5. Yoshi
Not sure where this guy came from, but he has some serious skill. And, as Dario stated, his skill translates to almost any map, which is shocking. Not many players have the ability to do that sort of thing, and it's quite a sight to see honestly. He's good at close-range, but can easily hang with most players at long-range as well. Considering how little he has played GO and other similar maps, he is actually quite skilled in them. I just feel that he's in his own little tier below the top tier of players, but a cut above everyone else who are tied between #5 and #10.

Ranked #4.

And now...everyone else, basically. Since it's too hard to differentiate between everyone's individual skills I just rank everyone in the same tier since we're all about equal (with one or two exceptions, which will be mentioned).

6. Akma
Akma's good. He has multiple playstyles associated with his various names (passive, aggressive, objective-oriented, stat-padder, or something in between) and this makes it so that he's a bit of a crap-shoot similar to InSo. You don't really know which one you'll get in a CTA when you pick him unless you know what style he plays on which names. Regardless, overall he can hang with most players in close-range and can also deal some damage at long-range; however, I think he's sometimes too predictable in close-range and is weaker in the long-range department. Nevertheless, a solid pick in CTA regardless of which persona he chooses to take on that day as all of them are skilled at what they are meant to do, but he doesn't stand out from the rest of the players in his tier.

Ranked somewhere between #5 and #10.

7. Astrok
I can't really comment on his skill in the past and in his prime, but as it currently stands he's grouped with everyone else in this 3rd tier. He's great at close-range and can keep up with the majority of players at long-range as well. Similar to a lot of older players who peaked in the past and have recently come back to the game (Akma is the only other player who comes to mind currently), I feel that his long-range game isn't as good as some of the players today, let alone the top players of a few years ago. Still a great pick though.

Ranked somewhere between #5 and #10.

8. tengo
I think Dario's description of him as a "poor man's Drue" is actually quite accurate. He goes for the objectives relentlessly and doesn't mind doing the dirty work for a victory. However, I'm not sure if it's a bi-product of his play in CTA games but, his play in GO hasn't stood out to me. Now I'm not saying he's a bad player by any means, but that he just doesn't stand out from the rest of the players in this 3rd tier. But this isn't rated solely on GO, so that has less of an impact on his overall rating. He's still a great pick in CTA and does whatever it takes to get the win, which is a great quality to have.

Ranked somewhere between #5 and #10.

9. Unreal
Not much to say about this guy that hasn't already been said. Yoshi and Dario covered it quite aptly. He's a great pick in CTA unless he's drunk, in which case he is a complete wreck.

Ranked somewhere between #5 and #10.

10. Dario
In all honesty I can't comment on this guy's skill. I have never really paid attention to this game competitively, and when I did I never got the chance to see him play. But based on his own boasting and Yoshi's testimony (which I feel inclined to trust), I have an inkling that if Dario tried he could be ranked above this tier, alongside Yoshi but below the top tier (or possibly even higher than Yoshi?). Whether I will ever get to witness this is yet to be determined, but it is something I'd like to see as Dario's true skill is a bit of an enigma to me.

However, as a result of his inactivity, I would not rank Dario.

11. Genocide
Similar to a lot of other players on this list, he doesn't try -- he just trolls. If he were to give his full effort all of the time I would definitely put him in the top 10 for GO-esque maps (possibly top 5), but I think he would still falter in CTAs. As it is, he performs quite poorly in CTA anyways. He kind of reminds me of players like Terror and Domey, who don't perform well in CTAs at all but can still perform very well in pubs and organized games (to a degree).

However, as a result of his inactivity, I would not rank Genocide.

12. Riptide
As stated in quite a few lists recently, I am a naturally passive player. But I'll take this time to explain a bit about my gameplay and try to show that I'm not such a one-dimensional player. I agree that I am passive, and don't often play aggressively, but in the end I play for the objective. If going for the objective requires that I rush or play more aggressively, I will do it (if you don't believe me look at my stats in most Hectic or Stronghold games -- they aren't stellar, and that's because I go for the objectives). Mind you, I do not like dying and don't think it contributes to the team unless it's a strategical death (which aren't very prevalent in the majority of CTAs due to the sheer number of players and smaller map sizes). Therefore, I typically only become aggressive when I know I have a very good shot of accomplishing what I intend (for example, taking the opposing corner in Hectic or Stronghold using the tunnels). Since I'm very picky about these opportunities, that makes me look like a completely passive player who is allergic to close-quarters combat but I assure you that is not the case. Granted, I probably don't do this sort of thing often enough and don't create enough opportunities for myself but I feel that I am ranked in the 3rd tier along with all of the other aforementioned players. Whether I'm higher or lower than some of the other players, I'm not sure. As I stated previously, it gets to a point where it's too hard to differentiate between most players unless you really pick apart every aspect of their games with a rating system similar to what Fordus used to use when he rated players in depth.

Ranked somewhere between #5 and #10.


I'm not going to bother rating any lower than this as it's a different tier of players for me. I'll just give out some honourable mentions though.

Niveus / dip
Niveus / dip is a very smart player! It's always a pleasure to have him on my team unless he's trolling or baked out of his mind. His technical abilities are decent as well, though he's not very consistent.

Benevolence
He's all right, though I think over-rated due to his lag. More suited for the usual CTA maps, and not so much the GO-esque maps.

I'm definitely forgetting some other people, but these two are probably near the top of the next (or 4th) tier for me.


TLDR, here are my personal rankings in some semblance of an order (commas denote ranking order and backslashes denote ties)...

Tier 1: Sebek / Puffball
Tier 2: Parrotman
Tier 2.5: Yoshi (not sure if he belongs in the same tier as Parrotman, but he's above the players in tier 3 so I'm going to cheat and do this)
Tier 3: Drue / Akma / Astrok / Unreal / tengo / Riptide
Tier 4: Niveus / Benevolence, Clouds / RiddeN, loki / ectogon, and others who I'm forgetting
This post was last modified: 04-27-2014, 06:15 AM by Riptide.






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